The CoCo Price Guide
Frequently Asked Questions
For TRS-80 and Tandy Color Computers
From Capt's CoCo Hut
http://coco.clubltdstudios.com
Created April 8th, 2005
Last Updated: June 4th, 2006
Introduction
The TRS-80/Tandy Color Computer Price Guide is available at http://coco.clubltdstudios.com/reference/cocopricelist.txt.
This FAQ, and the associated Price Guide, are about collecting TRS-80 and Tandy Color Computers, also known as CoCos. These machines were built by Radio Shack, Corp (formerly known as Tandy Corp) during the 1980s and early 90s. The Color Computer is an 8-bit (with some 16-bit capabilities) home computer, based on the Motorola 6809 microprocessor family, and is still in use by many hobbyists and retro-gamers around the world.
The TRS-80 Color Computer developed an amazingly loyal following among its users. The last model of CoCo built by Radio Shack, the Tandy Color Computer 3, is not just a retro-game platform for folks wanting to take a stroll down memory lane. The CoCo 3, with it's flexible Motorola 68B09EP microprocessor and running the powerful, UNIX-like OS-9 operating system, is still very much a living platform being used for all sorts of development and applications.
I started the CoCo Price Guide mainly for my own use. By tracking the prices of vintage TRS-80 Color Computer items I was able to get a better idea of how much things were “normally” selling for and gage my spending accordingly. Needless to say, in my eagerness to get back into the Color Computer, I paid way too much for quite a few things when I started! No regrets, of course. But patience, planning and information are valuable tools for any collector!
A price guide of any sort is not the end word on what you will, or will be willing, to pay for an item. All price guides are merely a frame of reference based on what other people have paid for the same or similar items in the past. There are many times when you will be more than willing to pay a bit extra for a nice or complete CoCo item. Or, perhaps, you're willing to fork over a bit more for an item you need desperately to complete a hobby system. Prices in the price guide should always be used as a starting point. How much is enough is up to you!
While the Price Guide is not a complete listing of every vintage Color Computer, CoCo accessory, and piece of software, I hope it will provide you with some aid in acquiring items for your collection.
This FAQ deals with the use of the CoCo Price Guide as a tool for the collector. It does deal exclusively with vintage software, books, magazines and components. The Price Guide does not include modern products for this wonderful machine, of which there are many. While Radio Shack no longer produces the Color Computer, the machine is still in wide use around the world by hobbyists, programmers, electronics tinkerers, and retro-gamers. For more information about these machines, see the Linkage section of Capt's CoCo Hut for a list of sites. Http://coco.clubltdstudios.com/linkage.html.
In the FAQ, I do provide a few pointers for collecting CoCos, but the main focus is on explaining how the guide is compiled and how to use it. Look for the new collectors guide, “Coo Coo for CoCos: A Guide to Collecting TRS-80 and Tandy Color Computers” coming soon to a CoCo Hut near you. This annual guide will offer more in depth tips and suggestions, as well some historical and technical details oriented primarily toward collecting Color Computers.
Before we get started, let's be clear that all of this is purely and 100% in my humble opinion. This is how I collect CoCo stuff. I assume that if you're reading this, you are interested in collecting TRS-80 and Tandy Color Computers. As such, I also hope you find this FAQ, the Price Guide, and the various other bits of information on this site useful. The super machine from Radio Shack makes a great collectible and a great computer for enthusiasts. With care, some cash, and a little foresight you can own one and get years of enjoyment out of it. Good hunting!
Angel's Luck & Electric Dreams,
Cris Egger (captcpu)
August 17th, 2005, June 4th, 2006
Section 1. General Information
Q: What is a CoCo?
A: The TRS-80 Color Computer, or Tandy Color Computer, or CoCo for short (also, “the cc80” or “the 80c” or some variation). An 8-bit/16-bit microcomputer sold through Radio Shack stores in the 1980s and early 90s. The computer grew out of a joint project, Prject Green Thumb, in the late 70s between Tandy and Motorola to provide online data services to farmers via a terminal and wire service called Videotex. In 1979 Tandy adapted and enhanced the design for its TRS-80 line of microcomputers to create a low cost platform for the growing home market. The Color Computer was produced in three major revisions: The TRS-80 Color Computer (1980), the TRS-80/Tandy Color Computer 2 (1983) and the Tandy Color Computer 3 (1986). A variant called the MC-10, a tiny little competitor of the Sinclair-style computers of the time, was released in 1983.
In addition, other companies produced clones of the CoCo, such as the Tandy Data Products System 100, or TDP-100 (U.S.), the Dragon 32 and Dragon 64 (UK) and the Prologica (Brazil). Tano also produced a version of the Dragon 64 for the U.S. market. There were various other “models” inside the three main revisions of Tandy's computer that featured various redesigns to the motherboard and internal layout, but they were all the same computer. See the Linkage section for a list of sites that cover the history of the CoCo in more detail, as well modern uses and equipment for the machine.
The TRS-80 designation is somewhat of a misnomer. The “80” in TRS-80 comes from the Model I and Model III, which were based around the Zilog Z80 microprocessor. The Z80 was a very popular early microprocessor used in a several computers, as well as many arcade machines. The Color Computer, however, was based on the much more powerful and streamlined Motorola 6809 microprocessor. Technically, there's an “80” in there! The 6809's other claims to fame include the cool Vetrex home video game system and the Defender arcade game. The microprocessor is still in wide use in various control systems used in manufacturing, telecommunications, and industrial applications. The 6809 made the CoCo the most powerful 8-bit micro of it's time. Hobbyists later expanded the computer to use the Hitachi 6309 microprocessor, a later enhanced version of the 6809.
Unlike other 8-bits, however, the CoCo did not have specialized, advanced graphics or sound hardware. It was basically a 6809 in a box. This design made it exceptionally appealing to hackers and electronics gurus, since the design was quite open and expandable, and made it an excellent machine to tinker with. As a result, the third party community for the CoCo was huge, and devices and software for the machine exploded far beyond the confines of local Radio Shack stores. This large after-market base makes the Color Computer a unique collectible in that much of the software and hardware for it is exceedingly difficult to obtain. A quarter million copies of a particular game, for example, weren't available at the local K-Mart, like many other 8-bits. Much of the CoCo's coolest stuff was only available via mail order. Those items are particularly rare and much sought after by collectors. All of which, of course, makes it that much more fun to collect!
Q: Where can I view the CoCo Price Guide?
A: http://coco.clubltdstudios.com/reference/cocopricelist.txt. This is the only site carrying the CoCo Price Guide at this time. Interested web masters should email captcpu@clubltdstudios.com for more information.
Q: What formats is the Price Guide available in?
A: Plain, straight up, no additives or preservatives, all natural ASCII text. It is maintained using the freeware editor, Notepad ++ (http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm). This makes it about as portable as it can get. Use whatever editor or viewer you like, but one with a search function is handy.
Q: Why do some CoCos in the Price Guide say TRS-80 and others say Tandy?
A: Radio Shack stopped using the TRS-80 logo somewhere around 1984 or 85, I think (don't quote me on that). All of their computers went to the Tandy logo, including the last surviving TRS-80, the CoCo 2. The rest of the line was replaced with the Tandy 2000 (early on called the Super CoCo, though it was not compatible at all with the Color Computer) and then the IBM-compatible Tandy 1000. Yup, that's right, the CoCo was the only TRS-80 to survive into the 90s!
The price guide tries to reflect which logo was actually on the device, be it a CoCo, a disk drive, or other piece of hardware. For collectible purposes, TRS-80 branded merchandise from Radio Shack is older. In mint condition it would also tend to be rarer. (Interestingly, after Tandy went nuts changing all of its merchandise to the Tandy name and logo, it eventually spun off and renamed itself The Radio Shack Corporation. There are no Tandy computers in production today, alas.)
Q: So the CoCo, and it's brothers and sisters in the TRS-80 line, were lovingly called “Trash-80s,” right?
A: No. And I just had to throw this question in because it tweaks me when I see sellers post “lovingly referred to as...” in their auction listings. “Trash-80” was a derogatory term and still is. I heard it most frequently used by Commie 64 and uppity crApple II users. (To this day I can't look at an Apple without cringing and would cut off my right arm before purchasing even an iPod. It scarred me, it truly did.) The Atari and TI-99 users I knew were more supportive and system tolerant, so we like those machines.
Of course, we bought our machines at an actual computer and electronics store with years of experience producing top notch electronic equipment. They bought their “computers” at start up “boutiques,” Sears, or K-Mart. You decide. :::evil grin:::
Q: What's the difference between a model number, a serial number, a type of CoCo and a catalog number? They all seem to be used interchangeably but refer to different things!
A: Sorta. :) I'm going to take a shot at creating some standing terminology for CoCo models, but keep in mind this lingo is for collectible purposes only. When talking to CoCos people, including myself, we frequently interchange some of these terms.
Type: You'll often hear a CoCo referred to as a “type” as in; “What type of CoCo do you have?” The speaker or writer is usually referring to the Model and Cat. No., simultaneously, as below. In some cases, they are only referring to the Model or the Cat. No., in which case the reference is usually clarified in context. I try to avoid using “type” in the collector's guide, preferring instead to use model or cat. no. to reference what kind of CoCo is under consideration.
Model: Either referring to the revision of CoCo – the CoCo 1, CoCo 2, or CoCo 3 – or the Cat. No. (see below) For our purposes, model always refers to the revision of CoCo, never the Cat. No. (Though I'm guilty of interchanging the two all the time and will have to start combing the Hut for improper references. Ouch!)
Cat. No.: Always refers to the Radio Shack Catalog Number, which in turn identifies what kind of CoCo you've got. Also sometimes called a Model Number, particularly referring to the last four digits of the Cat. No. (ie. 26-3001 where 3001 would be the “model” number) or last three digits of the Cat. No., since all CoCos start with 26-3xxx, where xxx is sometimes called the “model” number. I've resolved to use Cat. No. instead of model number in this usage, but I'll slip up a lot. ;)
Serial Number: Not terribly useful for identification purposes, and not tracked in the Price Guide, but can indicate how early a model was built. Unfortunately, no dates for serial number ranges seem to have survived or are locatable. Obviously, items with very low serial numbers tend to be collectible, but otherwise, it doesn't matter.
Section 2. Using the Price Guide
Q: How often is the Price Guide updated?
A: Normally on a weekly basis, but I miss that goal regularly for a variety of reasons. Work and family are the most common. If the prices aren't shifting around or there's not much selling I might wait two weeks to see what happens. Same is true if there's someone on a buying spree and driving prices up quickly.
Q: How do I read the Price Guide?
A: The price guide is uploaded in plain text to make it easy and portable. No fancy coding or graphics are necessary, so most word processors, browsers and text editors should be able to read it fine. There are no plans, at this time, to add any special formating or formats.
The price guide is divided into sections for each type of item. In those sections the items are listed alphabetically by title or name. At the top of the price guide is a list of keywords that you can copy and paste into a search dialog to jump straight to a particular section.
Each item lists three prices in three grades (see Section 3. Grading CoCo Stuff): Good, Very Good, and Fine. If no price is listed than the item has not been observed selling in that condition.
Magazines and books are listed with a single price, since it's very difficult to determine a grading criteria from pictures on eBay. Magazines that sell with tape and/or disk versions are listed together when selling together. Tapes or disks selling separately are listed separately.
The CoCo listings themselves are divided by the CoCo model and then by Catalog Number.
Q: How do you determine prices for the Price Guide?
A: There's no secret formula. I use similar methods that I've seen in other collector's guides I've used for books, magazines, comics, cards, antiques, etc. The basic idea is to get a representative price of an item in a particular condition. The price is ONLY representative and may vary widely from sale to sale. The main purpose is to provide a point of reference for someone who wants to sell or purchase a particular item.
In the case of CoCos, we're talking about “vintage” computers and there's not a whole lot of precedent for pricing. In the computer world we say antique or vintage when something is only 5 years old (and only half kidding). In general collecting, it takes a bit longer and thus a price pattern can be established over the years. We're also talking about a relatively small collector's market. The hobbyist and retro-gamer markets tend to buy more, but these folks also tend to be more price conscious. Frugal, that is. :)
Because of this, the Price Guide uses a lot of historical averaging. With this method, I track prices over a period of, say, 6 to 12 months and list the average price for a particular item. The downside to this approach is that the price can shift suddenly, even from week to week, and the price you pay or sell at could be considerably different that what is in the Price Guide.
To compensate, I try to keep a running commentary, posted monthly, that gages the current market and what's selling and what's not. Using this information, your own observations, and the Price Guide in conjunction is vital to getting good prices, whether buying or selling. Of course, sometimes an item comes up that is so rare or desirable that all considerations go out the window. In those cases, you're on your own.
All of the prices on the Price Guide are, as of this writing, based on sales on eBay. For the price to be affected, the item must actually sell. Non-selling items are not factored directly, though a run of a particular item not selling may prompt a decline in the price. This is a subjective call on my part, of course, so I try to be conservative when doing this.
The CoCo's themselves are priced by model and then catalog number. The price of a single Cat. No. is based on observed sales when the auction actually lists the catalog number. All CoCos are also monitored by computing a base average for that particular model (CoCo 1, CoCo 2, CoCo 3). This is the average price of that model of CoCo over the course of the month. That averaged price is then used to weight the price of the individual catalog numbers. The averaged price is not displayed currently in the price list, since it is a very broad number and would not be terribly useful for collecting purposes.
Listed in The CoCo Collector each month is the high and low price for each model. Also listed is the average price for that month and the variance from the previous month. By monitoring the variance, you can watch trends as the average price goes up and down. (This trend is not tracked directly in the Price Guide, but I use it frequently when writing The CoCo Collector each month.)
If an item has no prices listed then it has not been observed as being sold at auction, but is known to have existed at some point. I won't guess at the price for these rare items. :) I will occasionally add items observed in old magazine reviews and advertisements that were known to exist, but have not been observed at auction.
The prices observed are those that appear in the TRS-80 portion of the Vintage Computers listings on eBay. Currently, very little outside of this area is used due to time constraints (though, if I notice a rather juicy item elsewhere I might track it).
Q: How do you determine how rare an item is?
A: Rarity isn't really tracked, per se. A “rare” item might just be a piece of software that has never been observed being sold. For example, I would say a complete CoCo Max 3 with it's shipping box, manuals, dongle, and disks is a rare item. A shrink wrapped Dungeons of Daggorath is rare, but not as rare. A Baseball cartridge by itself is relatively common. And so on. For systems, it's generally how long that particular model was in production and how often it appears for auction.
What is tracked is how often an item appears on eBay. This is not how often an item sells, nor is it how many unique copies of an item appeared, but how many times it is listed. Every time one shows up, regardless or whether it's been listed before or if it sells, I add one to the counter. Over time, this method will give some indication of rarity from a historical availability point of view in relation to other CoCo items. The higher the number, the more often the item has been made available for purchase. It's more an indicator of opportunity than rarity.
(Someone pointed out that the above statement is what they consider rarity to mean. Fair enough. I consider rarity an indicator of how many were produced and how many are still actually floating around out there. Fine line. Your choice.)
What this rarity method is not is an indication of how many of an item are available or were produced, nor is it an indication that the item will be plentiful or available for sale in the future. However, by using the rarity number in combination with other tools, we can get a better idea of how to value an CoCo item.
Section 3. Grading and Classifying CoCo Items
Q: How do you grade CoCo items?
A: This is actually pretty straightforward, so we'll start with general guidelines I use and then go down the list for specific considerations. As always, IMHO.
I only consider three grades for the Price Guide: Good, Very Good, and Fine. You could add more degrees if you were inclined to do so, such as Poor, Very Fine, and Mint, but it's just too difficult to get a good read on condition from an eBay auction. For example, the Museum on Capt's CoCo Hut uses a full range of grades: Parts, Very Poor, Poor, Good, Very Good, Fine, Very Fine, Near Mint, and Mint. They have slightly different meanings in the context of a personal collection that can be examined hands on. But for the Price Guide and general collecting purposes, these three suffice.
In all cases, we are talking about working condition. Items that are clearly in poor condition, or are listed as not working, are not included for consideration in the Price Guide. If it doesn't work, it's “parts.” :)
These three grades are broad enough that they can apply to many items based on pictures and descriptions found on eBay, yet still be useful as a collecting tool. The descriptions of the grades below are for collectible purposes. Hobbyists and retro-gamers could, and often should, take a different view.
Fine: Would be Mint, but someone opened the box. A pretty much perfect specimen of CoCo Goodness. All components are there, they are clean and as beautiful as the day they were purchased and brought home. In each case, all the original stuff, including manuals, hook ups, packing materials, etc., are present and in perfect condition.
Very Good: Our most popular range! These items are used but clean with labels intact and few if any dings or scratches. The original packaging may or may not be missing, but they should include any documentation that came with the item.
Good: These items tend to be a little more used, perhaps even “well loved.” However, they are clean and perfectly functional. The label may be starting to fade or peel, or there may be some marks, dings or scratches, but otherwise a nice specimen.
Q: What about Mint items sold on eBay?
A: There's no way for me to confirm the item is Mint unless I buy it. So, for Price Guide purposes, Mint items are figured into the Fine price. It's important to note, however, that the Fine price is merely a jumping off point for rare Mint items. More so than any other grade, with Mint items, you're limited only by what you and your competition are willing to spend.
Q: Okay, how do you apply grading to specific items, like software, program paks, hardware, etc.?
A: Again, the assumption is always a working item. After that, here's the considerations I run through my head when examining items for the Price List.
Color Computers: A working CoCo is a working CoCo, so consideration for a grade revolves around aesthetic and mechanical condition, as well as completeness of the package.
Good is a fairly clean CoCo all by itself. It should not be terribly yellowed or scratched up and missing a lot of paint. The keys should all be present, the pak door should swing and there shouldn't be any pins or miscellanea broken off in its ports.
Very Good would be the same but with the original box, or perhaps a manual or two. It should be very clean with little or no yellowing or scratches.
Fine would be a complete CoCo with box, manuals, and the original packing. It would, of course, be pretty close to flawless cosmetically.
Program Paks: The older paks came in a gray-ish silver box with a window cut in it to show the manual cover art. These were shrink wrapped. The newer paks for the CoCo 3 were in a clear clamshell case with the cover of the instruction manual facing out.
To simplify pricing on paks, I grade any pak that includes the original packaging, documentation, and the pak itself as Fine, as long it is obviously nice, not scratched, yellowed, or shows any other visible damage. . If it just has either the documentation or the box and the pak, then it's Very Good. Just the pak alone rates a Good.
Often, it is too difficult to determine precise physical condition without actually examining the item in person. However, when the item description and picture shows the pak's condition in detail, I will grade it more specifically. Thus, for example, a pak with a crushed box and manual, but without the pak catalog included in all the earlier paks, would rate Good or Very Good instead of Fine.
For purists, the older paks should be shrink wrapped to be considered Mint. Unfortunately, the clamshell paks can not be verified as unopened, so completeness and physical condition (e.g. Perfect) would have to be the determining factor. The plastic on the latter tend to yellow badly.
Disks: A tough category to grade, because many just came in a plastic baggy or with no packaging at all. If the packaging is suppose to be present then I grade it accordingly. Grading is similar to paks. In many cases, though, with disk software it boils down to completeness. In which case, grading is the same as paks.
The packaging and manuals included with disks (and tapes) are difficult to grade through online pictures and descriptions. When present, though, they can contribute to the grade. Whether or not the software is tested and shown in working condition or not may also play a factor. For example, a particularly rare disk with its instruction sheet, shown working, may rate a Fine where it would only rate Very Good if not shown working.
Tapes: Ditto. :)
Hardware: The Radio Shack hardware always came in a box with manuals. So complete items that are obviously well cared for, or have held up well, rate Fine. The item alone, or with manual(s) would rate a Very Good. Items alone in obviously used condition would rate a Good.
Third party hardware frequently did not come boxed. However, most items came with some sort of manual or instructions. If the item is complete and appears well cared for, then it would rate a Fine. Items that are dinged up or well-loved will rate a Very Good or Good.
Q: How do you grade condition as far as scratches and dirt and such?
A: A precise method is impossible without actually handling the item, of course. Pictures and descriptions, though, can lend a hand. Some criteria to consider:
Yellowing: That dingy yellow color on the CoCo 2 and CoCo 3 cases is primarily caused by two things. The first is cigarette tar. While we all know that smoking around computers is a Bad Thing, it happened a lot in the 80s. This type of damage is somewhat repairable, but it takes some effort (and a lot of bleach). Items with tar stains can also smell awful. The second is exposure to direct sunlight. Plastic doesn't do well in these conditions because it contains acids that tend to yellow the material over time. Unfortunately, this type of damage is difficult, and in most cases impossible, to repair. The key caps on the CoCo 2 and 3 are especially susceptible to yellowing caused by over exposure to sunlight. Yellowing on a CoCo 1 is particularly bad, because the damage is usually to the non-removable keys, or the CoCo's paint. It's also more difficult to yellow the original models, so be aware that these machines were probably heavily used, or left in undesirable storage conditions for many years. Yellowing of any sort is usually not desirable from a collectible point of view. It's difficult to restore and looks nasty.
Scratches, cracks and dings: The CoCo cases are pretty tough, but could be damaged through dropping, sharp blows, or physical mishandling. The early gray models were plastic (either black or a light gray color) and painted a silver-gray color. The paint had a tendency to wear off during use, particularly directly below the keyboard where the user's wrists would rest. The paint also scratched off easily. Scratches or cracks in the case that actually score the underlying plastic could indicate serious problems or mishandling. The CoCo 2 and CoCo 3 had a molded plastic case and were not painted. The case was a slightly off-white color. Actually, cleaned and properly maintained it's quite white. Scratching or cracks on these cases would indicate serious wear or possible damage due to rough treatment. In all cases, each blemish should reduce the desirability of a particular machine from a collector's standpoint.
Dirt: All the CoCo cases are easy to clean. Pop them open, unhook everything and scrub them down and you're done. The CoCo 2 and 3 cases can be soaked in a mild detergent or bleach solution, which will whiten them up in many cases. These cases can be scrubbed with a nylon dish bad as well (NOT steal or copper!) The CoCo 1 case should NOT be soaked or scrubbed! Use only mild detergent and a soft cloth. Repeated cleanings may be necessary to get the desired results.
Dirt may not be a determining factor as far as a collectible piece is concerned, but may hide other problems. In some cases, some substances may stain the case. The cases also had bumps and ridges in them that may be difficult to clean. And, of course, dirt indicates the CoCo was not stored well, or cleaned frequently when in use. There are few moving parts on the CoCo, but dirt and grime can also affect operation of the keyboard, power supply and pak slot bay door. Dirty CoCos are generally not going to be collectible unless it's something easily restored or a particularly rare model or variation (Cat. No. 26-2001 with a serial number of 0000001 would be worth something in any condition!)
Q: Are modifications and upgrades to a CoCo valuable as a collectible?
A: First, these machines are not considered in the Price Guide, since it would be impossible to describe them accurately in most cases. Are they collectible, though? From my observations to date, no. Even when it's a rare upgrade like a third party keyboard, or a lowercase kit added to a CoCo 1, they don't tend to sell for much more than the original configurations, and sometimes even less. The exceptions are CoCo 3s with the 512K upgrades, any CoCo 3 beyond 512K, and Hitachi 6309 machines (an alternate and faster microprocessor). Personally, I consider my modified CoCos to be some of the prizes of my collection! They represent some of the amazing and wonderful things people did to the machine to make it better than even Radio Shack gave it credit for. And they're really, really cool. From a value point of view, they aren't worth much for some reason. I don't know why. From a collectible standpoint, I'll leave it for you to decide. I love 'em!
Section 4. Final Thoughts
Q: How much is too much for a CoCo or CoCo item?
A: There are some people that shake their heads and wonder at the prices some collectors will pay for vintage CoCo stuff. There are collectors out there that will max out their credit cards for one rare CoCo item. The two will never understand the other. In the end, it's entirely up to you. Each CoCo collection will be as unique as the collector and that uniqueness will determine what each person is willing to spend.
Unlike other 8-bits of the day, the Color Computer never really had a “personality.” It is almost literally a 6809 and some RAM with a keyboard stuck on it. As such, it was (intentionally or not) designed to be whatever the user wanted it to be. Your collection, and your collecting habits, will be the same. The prices in the Price Guide are just a starting point. In many ways, it's just as fun to browse the guide, sans prices, and drool over the stuff that might still be floating around out there, tucked away in some closet or basement, waiting to be rediscovered. Whatever direction your CoCo collecting takes, here's hoping you'll always be a CoCo nut, and find joy and pleasure from collecting this wonderful and amazing machine.
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